UTI - Pink/red urine

[Stu n Lea]

Hello!

I feel like these posts are becoming too regular for us, tonight while girls were playing our girl Dusty 1yr 4mnths old had pinkish red urine that she was leaving around the play area (wouldn't have noticed in the cage) I think from the research I've just done it is just a UTI that needs antibiotics. I'll try get her into the vets tomorrow evening but I'll be lucky to get her in that quick, will leaving it till Monday be too late? I'll keep eye on her and can call in as emergency if she gets worse.

I do have lots of baytril left from recently treating one of my other girls, Comet (respiratory problem two weeks ago) but I don't think self diagnosis is the way to go. Very tempting to start the meds right away though and catch it early...

Any help would be great, thank you!

Leanne

[Stu n Lea]

Update on Dusty:

Took Dusty to the vets on Monday morning, after seeing the pinkish urine Thursday night it had seemed to have cleared up Friday and seemed clear when I took her to the vets too so I wasn't sure how to explain this to the vet. He checked Dusty over, listened to her chest and felt around her lower body for any tumors or anything abnormal and he found nothing to be unusual. He did say however that a course of Baytril for seven days would be necessary to clear up any illness she might have that had caused the pinkish urine. I'm not convinced that this is a long enough course, but he did weigh Dusty and has put her on 1.5ml dose per day and asked for me to bring in a urine sample asap for him to check.

Now for those wondering how you take a urine sample from a rat then I can tell you it takes a lot of patience! I waited till Tuesday morning, took Dusty out of the cage and put her in the carry cage I use for the girls when cleaning out or taking them to the vets but with no bedding and kept her in there until she had done a wee so that I could then use a fresh syringe to zap it up with.

I took this to the vets and within an hour I got a phone call to say that there was traces of blood in the urine and that I needed to proceed with the course of antibiotics prescribed.

It is now Wednesday night and she has had her second dose of baytril but tonight the blood in her wee has become very noticeable and she doesn't seem herself, I think she maybe feeling so discomfort.

Hope the antibiotics kicks in soon, any views on whether we should actually give her a 14 day course of antibiotics rather than the recommended seven day course?

Thank you,

Lea & Stu

[joolzratbag]

hi Lea & Stu,
sorry to hear about Dusty and apologies for the delay in replying. How is Dusty doing now? I do hope she is ok..
UTIs definitely should be treated for 2 to 3 weeks, preferably 3,and whilst some do - some don't respond well to baytril. In these cases it's best to use trimethoprim sulfa - but it's also worth keeping in mind that there are a few other causes of blood in urine including pyometra which can cause blood to get in the urine from the uterus.
Others here: http://ratguide.com/health/urinary_renal/hematuria.php

[Stu n Lea]

Hi, thank you for your advice, Dusty isn't any better, she finished the 7 day course of baytril Monday night and her urine was still bright red, tonight she is the same and very frequently needing to wee, every minute or so but only very small amounts. Saying this, she is still very lively and playful and is eating and drinking well.

I phoned the vets today to book her in again but found out that the vet I usually see is on holiday for two weeks so was recommended another vet (who is named on this site for good rat knowledge!) but the earliest appointment I can get with her is Friday... I did say to the receptionist that I would take in another urine sample to test for blood but this seems a little silly as its very obvious, but after doing a little research myself I might get them to check for urine crystals that also don't respond well to baytril but can be seen under a microscope apparently?!? I have read somewhere that baytril can cause urine crystals...

I will definitely read into the condition you mentioned pyometra, and I will certainly push for her to go on that other antibiotic if indeed it is just a UTI.

Will keep you posted on how I get on tomorrow!

Thanks again,

Lea & Stu

[Stu n Lea]

Hello!

No news on Dusty, it was very difficult trying to get a urine sample from her yesterday morning so I phoned the vets and confirmed my appointment for tomorrow, I will try get a urine sample to take with me tomorrow.

No change in Dusty she is still playful and eating & drinking well, so fingers crossed we can get her onto the right antibiotics tomorrow and see an improvement in her.

Will keep you posted,

Thanks, Lea & Stu

[joolzratbag]

good luck at the vets today!

[Stu n Lea]

Hi, thank you! Unfortunately, things didn't go as hoped at the vets... The other vet I saw didn't know too much about UTIs in rats as they claimed there was not much research gone into this - bad start

Luckily I took in a urine sample with me and it obviously showed up blood in the urine on the dipstick (found out later I was charged £10! for that test, when I had it done for free last time round...) I then explained what had happened over the last couple of weeks and the vet agreed that trying another antibiotic would be a good idea so I mentioned the antibiotic suggested here which they agreed to give me. The vet also suggested Metacam (oral) only two doses, one dose 0.3ml per day, as an anti-inflammatory / pain killer as they described Dusty's condition as cystitis so suggested this could be quite painful for Dusty. The vet did explain that there is a possibility that the blood could be coming from elsewhere so if this treatment didn't work that they would have to x-ray her to see possible stones, tumors (although not all of these are visible on an x-ray) and if this didn't show anything up to operate on her and see what is going on.... not keen on this option at all!! The vet did offer to examine the urine sample I had brought in further incase they can detect there to be an infection or crystals, they are going to get back to me later today but said they might need another sample as there wasn't much left.

The fun began when I went to pick up Dusty's meds.. they apparently couldn't give us the antibiotic I wanted because it was only in tablet form and impossible to crush into a powder?!? Is this true? So instead they have prescribed Noroclava (40mg Amoxicillin, 10mg Clavulanic Acid) 1/4 tablet twice a day! But have only been given three tablets which works out at 6 days course.... is this going to have any effect to Dusty? Our normal vet explained last time we took Dusty in that they need one high dose daily for it to get into the blood stream not two weak doses daily...

Anyway tried to administer the meds to Dusty last night - she did not like the metacam no matter what I mixed it with, so tried syringing it and half of it ended up on her fur or on me, it smells very strong, I don't blame her. Luckily the antibiotic is less noticeable and Dusty is happy to take that.

Any advice would be very welcome! Thanks!

[joolzratbag]

It's just as well the metacam ended up in her fur and over you - 0.3ml is a lot really! The normal dose for average sized rats is 1 drop - and there are approx 2 drops in 0.1 ml!
If she was in pain you would see her sucking her sides in from time to time, and would most likely fluff her fur up and be off her food.

trimethroprim sulfa is also known as Bactrim or Septrim, I am not sure if it can come in powder form too, although I don't see why tablets couldn't be crushed into a powder and then used? I know there is a liquid form which is banana flavoured and that it can be difficult to get rats to take this - but noraclav is fine for UTIs too and is what I would recommend if she had suspected pyometra. It might be that they have only given 6 days worth because they want to see how she is getting on with it, personally I would book another appointment for 5 days time and make sure you get more.

It might be worth printing this off for the vet when you go back, which advises a 10 - 14 days course of noraclav for rats:
http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_ ... lanate.php

[Stu n Lea]

Thank you for this information, luckily I didn't even try giving Dusty the second dose of metacam, as I thought like you did that she would show more obvious signs of being in pain and no research has suggested taking painkillers for a UTI... phew!

I got a phone call back from the vets yesterday explaining that further examination of the urine sample did show up some urine crystals but not a significant amount to call her back in for.

I am noticing a difference in Dusty already she isn't needing to wee as often and her urine isn't red that I have seen while she has been out playing, so fingers crossed! Like you say I will need to book her an appointment for this week to get her more noroclav!

Thanks again!

Lea & Stu

[Stu n Lea]

Hi! I managed to book a phone appointment with the vet today, and convinced her to prescribe more noroclav, so she has given me 3 more tablets another 6 days.

Only problem is I noticed tonight that Dusty's urine is pink again so after convincing the vet that Dusty seemed to have clearer urine and therefore improving on this antibiotic, my efforts seem to have been pointless. I do hope she improves soon, she has only been on the antibiotic for 4 days so there is still time!

I have notice that the base of her tail when she is trying for a wee extends and moves to the side a little, not sure if this is a symptom to watch out for. I'll research into it some more...

Thanks

Lea & Stu

[joolzratbag]

I'm not really sure why she would move her tail like that.
Hopefully it is a UTI and the full course will clear it...if not, you need to start looking for symptoms of other likely causes that can be found in the link in my first post.
For example - try waking her from her bed and checking her vagina before she has a chance to wash herself - if there is blood there, then the blood in her urine is coming from her uterus (pyometra), not her bladder.
But fingers crossed it is a UTI and will clear completely after the full course of noraclav!

[AlienRat]

As there were crystals in the urine, you could ask the vet for something called Cystaid which is used for cystitis in cats and dogs. It helps protect the mucosa of the wall of the bladder and also reduces inflammation. Just because there weren't many in the sample doesn't mean she hasn't got bigger ones in her bladder, they could have sharp edges and make cuts in her bladder wall. I had a boy with crystals in his urine, his were caused by Baytril. I think adding the cystaid to maybe another antibiotic than noroclav, such as sulfatrim, like joolz suggested, might help. The tail moving to the side might be because she has a blockage or partial blockage and it's just how she expresses her discomfort? Just a guess.

[Stu n Lea]

This is great - thanks!!

Dusty is close to finishing her antibiotics, she has 4 days left... yesterday her urine looked clear and there was more of it compared to previous nights where it was bright red and not much of it. Hopefully this means she is on the road to recovery but there has been occassions before when I've noticed the colour of the urine to be clearer then the next day back to red so we shall see. I do like the thought that there is another option if this treatment doesn't work and fortunately my usual vet is back from his hols next week so I may have more luck suggesting other meds like the ones you've advised.

In a way I'm hoping it is just a UTI as looking at some of the case studies for pyometra is quite disturbing, and I really hope she doesn't have to go through any type of surgery. I haven't noticed an increase in size of her abdomen which seems quite common with this disease so fingers crossed. And she is still a very active girl who is loving taking her meds (noroclav) with banana and a little probiotic natural yoghurt!

Lea & Stu

[joolzratbag]

How is Dusty doing now? I hope all is well!

[Stu n Lea]

Hi! Sorry we have not been in touch lately - moving house at the min so had no internet for a while...

...anyway, to cut a long story short, Dusty still had red urine by the end of her course of Noroclav so I booked her in to see the original vet who was back off his hols and he was disappointed that the other vet had prescribed Dusty Noroclav as it's apparently not an antibiotic he would choose to give to rats as it's a penicillin and quite harsh (good job I didn't mention the OTT course of painkiller the other vet had prescribed at the start of the course ) I took another urine sample which he tested and found blood present and he basically said it is either a UTI that will clear up with Trimacare (the antibiotic you had suggested she should be on) or he explained about a degenerative illness to do with the kidneys as he had found a high level of protein in the urine sample, he said there might be cysts that build up causing the bleeding... not sure what to think of that especially when he mentioned that you can't cure it only control the illness - poor Dusty. Anyway, looking on the bright side he prescribed two week course of Trimacare (in tablet form, even though the other vet told me they were too hard to crush ) and Dusty is doing great on them, her urine is not red and seems back to normal, so fingers crossed this works.

I did mention urine crystals to the vet and he believes that these are not very common in rats as it is usually bladder stones, so he said we could opt for an xray if Dusty still doesn't improve after this course of antibiotics.

It does look like I'll be going to the vets again very soon, as one of my other girls 'Chase' in the same cage seems to be having difficulty opening one of her eyes - I think she might have got into a fight and possibly been scratched in the eye as she is lively as usual and doesn't have any other health problems... these vet visits are becoming far too frequent.

Any advice would be welcome!

Thank you!